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股神巴菲特vs.饒舌天王傑斯 世紀精彩對談 ──兩大傳奇人物原汁原味的成功之道 你聽懂多少？ |
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 F = Steve Forbes 史提夫‧富比士 B = Warren Buffett 華倫‧巴菲特 J = Jay-Z 傑斯 |
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| F: | You two are unique. Even though you're in different spheres, you've reached a level of success — almost legendary. What did you do, what made you different? Warren, we'll start with you, because investing, there are a lot of bright people. They've all claimed to have read Graham and Dodd; they all claim to be disciplined. And yet there's only one Warren Buffett. |
| B: | Well, I was lucky that I got started early. I mean, it always helps if you get started early. And my dad happened to be in the investment business, so I would go down to his office on Saturdays. And so, at age probably seven or something I started reading these books that were around the place. And so I had a 15 year jump on many people in a sense, and that helped a lot. And I was always fascinated by them. I knew what I wanted to do early, and I think that's a huge advantage, too. |
| B: | And then, you don't need a lot of brains in this business. I mean, I've always said if you've got an IQ of 160, give away 30 points to somebody else, 'cause you don't need it in investments. What you do need is emotional stability. You have to be able to think independently, and you have to be — when you come to a conclusion, you have to really not care what other people say and just follow the facts and follow your reasoning. And that's tough for a lot of people. But that part, I think I was just lucky with. I was born that way. |
| F: | In terms of emotions, it's a truism that in investing, emotions are your enemy. |
| B: | Absolutely. |
| F: | That when the market's good, if you feel good, don't; if you feel bad, you should probably do it. |
| B: | Right. |
| F: | But how did you — what was that extra thing? Where, so many will acknowledge that, and yet, we saw in the current crisis, they panicked while you went into seemingly potential disasters like GE and Goldman Sachs. |
| B: | I can't really tell you the answer — I mean I didn't learn it in school or anything. I just, it never bothered me if people disagreed with what I thought, as long as I felt I knew the facts. I mean there's a whole bunch of things I don't know a thing about. I just stay away from those. So I stay within what I call my circle of competence. Tom Watson [IBM founder] said it best. He said, “I'm no genius, but I'm smart in spots, and I stay around those spots.” Well, I try and stay around those spots. |
| F: | Jay, you are in a business that's perhaps even more competitive, because there's probably not a young person in the country who at some point in their lives wants [doesn't want] to be an entertainer — a star. |
| J: | Right. |
| F: | And you not only have done it but you've done it consistently. And even though you're only 40 going on 41, in that business, that's almost like 80 in Warren's world. It's tough to do more than one or two [albums]. Looking back, what were the things that broke you out of the pack in the most dramatic way possible? |
| J: | As I was listening to him [Warren], I just hear all the similarities and all the things in what he's saying, right? Because if you don't look at it as tickers and things like that, you're really just searching for the truth within, you know, all that; and within all the numbers and all the chaos, you're just searching for the truth. Right? And that's the key to being a recording artist, right? You're telling your story or finding your truth at the moment. |
| J: | You know, mine's a little opposite from Warren because I started a little later. My first album didn't come out until I was 26, so I had a bit more maturity of where I was at; my first album had all these emotions and complexities and layers to them that a typical hip-hop album didn't have, because — you know — we were making it at 16, 17 years old. It wasn't enough wealth of experience to share with the world. |
| J: | So at 26, I had been through so many different things, I had so much wealth to share with the world at that time; and, from that starting point, I've never forgotten those things, like you say. You never forget those true things that you stick to, your basic things that make you successful. |
| J: | And for me, it's that truth, finding that truth — the truth of the moment, of where I am at the time, not trying to cater to a certain demographic; you know, not being something I'm not. |
| 富比士： | 你們兩人都很獨特。儘管分處不同領域，你們卻都達到某種程度上的成功——近乎是傳奇性的。你們做了什麼，是什麼讓你們與眾不同？華倫，我們先從你開始，因為投資界裡有許多非常聰明的人物。他們都宣稱自己讀過葛拉姆與陶德的著作；他們都宣稱自己謹守紀律，然而世上卻只有一位華倫‧巴菲特。 |
| 巴菲特： | 嗯，我很幸運自己起步得早。我是說，能及早起步總是有幫助的。而我父親又剛好身在投資界，所以我週六時會去他的辦公室。因此，大概在七歲左右時，我就開始讀起他辦公室裡的書了。因此，就某方面而言，我等於是比很多人早了十五年，這點對我幫助很大。而且那些書總是很吸引著我。我很早就明白自己想做什麼，我想這點也是一大優勢。 |
| 巴菲特： | 再來，在這行不用太聰明。我是指，我總是說，你如果智商有160，就把30分讓給別人吧，因為你在投資時用不到。你真正需要的是情緒上的穩定。你必須能夠獨立思考，而且你必須—— 一旦得出結論，你就必須真的不去理會他人的說法，只依循事實和你自己的推論行事。這點對許多人來說是很難做到的。不過，我認為我在這部分上就是純然的幸運。我天生就是這樣。 |
| 富比士： | 就情緒這點而言，有一句老話是這麼說的：情緒是投資最大的敵人。 |
| 巴菲特： | 的確。 |
| 富比士： | 市場情勢大好時，如果你覺得信心滿滿，可別太過自信；你要是覺得不對勁，也許就該跟著自己的感覺走。 |
| 傑斯： | 沒錯。 |
| 富比士： | 可是你是如何——你比別人到底多了什麼東西？許多人都會承認那一點，就像我們在當前的危機所看到的，大家還是不免恐慌，而你卻把投資觸角伸向前途看似岌岌可危的公司，例如奇異和高盛。 |
| 巴菲特： | 我沒辦法真的告訴你這個問題的答案——我是說，這不是我在學校或哪裡學來的。只是當我覺得自己掌握了事實，就從來不會去擔心別人的看法和我不同。我是說有許多事情是我根本不懂的。我會避開這類事物。因此我只待在我所謂的能力範圍內。 【IBM創辦人】湯姆‧華生說得好。他說：「我不是天才，可是我在若干領域裡有些小聰明，而我就謹守著這些領域。」我也是盡量謹守著自己擅長的領域。 |
| 富比士： | 傑，你所在的產業恐怕競爭還更加激烈，因為全國大概沒有一個年輕人在生命中的某個時刻不曾想過要當藝人——明星。 |
| 傑斯： | 沒錯。 |
| 富比士： | 你不但做到了，而且還一直處於成功的高峰。你雖然才四十歲，即將邁入四十一歲，但在娛樂產業裡，這個年紀就相當於華倫那個產業裡的八十歲了。能夠發行超過一、兩張【專輯】是很不容易的事情。回頭看看，是什麼事讓你能夠以如此引人注目的方式脫穎而出？ |
| 傑斯： | 我剛在聽他【華倫】說話時，發現他說的和我的經驗有許多相似之處，對吧？因為如果你不是只在看股票代碼這類表面上的事物，你其實就是在找尋內心的真理，你知道的；在所有數字和所有的混亂當中，你其實就是在尋找真理。是吧？這正是身為唱片藝人的關鍵，對吧？你在訴說你的故事，或是在當下找出你的真理。 |
| 傑斯： | 你知道的，我的經驗和華倫有些相反，因為我起步得比較晚。直到二十六歲我才推出第一張專輯，所以當時我稍微比較成熟一點。我的第一張專輯帶有各種情感、繁複性與層次，是一般嘻哈專輯所沒有的，因為──你知道──一般嘻哈藝人都是在十六、十七歲錄製專輯，還沒有豐富的人生經驗足以跟世人分享。 |
| 傑斯： | 所以在二十六歲時，我已經歷了許多不同的事，我那時已有很多能和世人分享的東西。而且，我從一開始就不曾忘記這些東西，就像你所說的。你從來不曾忘記那些你謹守的真理，那些讓你成功的基礎。 |
| 傑斯： | 對我來說，就是那個真理，找出那個真理──找出我當時所處的那個真理，而不是試圖迎合某個特定族群，你知道的，不是去假扮我實際上不是的人。 |
資料來源：biz 互動英語電子報
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